Ken Huey (00:14)
Today's guest is Dr. David Zierk, a conflict navigation expert, clinical psychologist, and author of Mind Rules: Who's in Control, You or Your Mind. With over 25,000 counseling hours, 25 years guiding individuals and organizations through complex struggles, and more than a thousand expert forensic testimonies, David brings unmatched insight into how the mind operates and often sabotages us. Welcome. Great to have you, Dr. Zierk.

David (00:56)
Appreciate those kind words. Thank you.

Ken Huey (00:58)
Well David, I'm always fascinated to know how the people I talk to wind up where they are. Writing the book—what’s your why? Why did you get into this space?

David (01:08)
You mean as an author or as a psychologist?

Ken Huey (01:10)
It really isn’t—author is what I’m interested in first.

David (01:13)
[Explains how COVID inspired him to write, leading to the discovery that understanding the mind is essential to relationship intelligence, forming the foundation for Mind Rules.]

Ken Huey (03:06)
You talk a little bit about, well, in many different ways, about our mind working against us. What are maybe some of the surprising ways that our mind works against us instead of for us?

David (03:16)
[Describes how the mind is self-protective, not relational, and forms beliefs that can trap us in patterns. Offers examples with everyday decisions and conflict situations.]

Ken Huey (05:09)
So we get caught in this sort of recursive pattern, we get stuck. What is one piece of advice you’d give to break out of that so we’re not stuck in the belief that is not serving us?

David (05:23)
[Explains that the past often interferes with the present, discusses hope as anticipation of a preferred future, and how crisis triggers old behaviors.]

Ken Huey (06:49)
I wonder about workplace conflict. What’s the biggest misconception leaders have about workplace conflict?

David (07:04)
[Shares that conflict is often misunderstood as surface-level behavior rather than unmet needs; encourages leaders to explore underlying needs to resolve conflicts effectively.]

Ken Huey (08:53)
I think you allude to this, but we get in this kind of invisible mental rules, that you’ve used that language before. How do we stop ourselves? How do we find out that we’re in that pattern?

David (09:12)
[Talks about self-protection mode, unsolvable problems, and the mind not understanding mutuality.]

Ken Huey (10:12)
If you could, tell me how you think about vulnerability in building stronger relationships at work and at home.

David (10:20)
[Vulnerability is a superpower that deepens connection; fear of rejection can block it, but safe vulnerability strengthens relationships.]

Ken Huey (11:52)
Talk to me about how understanding mind rules improves a team’s ability to collaborate.

David (11:59)
[Explains that shared understanding of mind rules creates common language and philosophy, enabling intentionality, curiosity, and flexibility—essential for teamwork.]

Ken Huey (13:43)
You talked about unmet needs being at the root of conflict so often. Is there a difference between the way anxiety shows up in conflict versus those unmet needs?

David (13:54)
[Anxiety signals uncertainty, fueled by insecurities; it can guide preparation and decision-making when managed effectively.]

Ken Huey (15:15)
So there’s maybe next level anxiety or what you would call anxious thought loops. What should somebody be doing relative to that?

David (15:30)
[Encourages connecting with trusted people to gain perspective, diffuse anxiety, and strengthen support systems.]

Ken Huey (16:20)
Alright, let’s talk a little bit about forensic testimony. You’ve got over a thousand forensic testimonies. What have you learned from that about how people handle stress and conflict?

David (16:32)
[People often respond poorly under stress; introduces concept of the conflict personality and strategies to manage it.]

Ken Huey (18:15)
Talk to me about a real differentiation that I want to understand. Relationship intelligence versus emotional intelligence and how they differ in practice.

David (18:24)
[Relationship intelligence focuses on mutuality, connections, and laws of mutuality; emotional intelligence focuses on self-awareness of emotions.]

Ken Huey (20:18)
The name of this podcast is The Voice of Hope. There are dark times. What gives you hope in the middle of the conflict that you deal with in forensic testimony?

David (20:49)
[Hope comes from self-determinism, modeling good behavior, vulnerability, and empathy as antidotes to darkness.]

Ken Huey (22:58)
If people want to get to know more about you, if they want to find your book, is there a place they should go, a website?

David (23:07)
[Directs listeners to DavidZierk.com, his podcast Rethink, and resources for enhancing relationship intelligence.]

Ken Huey (24:32)
Fantastic. David, actionable, concise, and doing things that really can change the course of somebody’s life in positive ways. Thank you so much for spending a little bit of time with us. Appreciate it very much.

David (24:45)
This has been great. Thank you very much for the opportunity.