Ken Huey 0:00

Welcome to The Voice of Hope, where bold leaders and healers share how they're building hope, not just talking about it. I'm Dr. Ken Huey. Let's meet the changemakers transforming lives from the therapy room to the boardroom. Hello, and welcome to today's episode of The Voice of Hope. Today, our guest is Dr. Yvette Jackson, Executive Director at Devereaux Advanced Behavioral Health. She's a behavioral health executive and licensed social worker with more than 25 years of experience leading child welfare, foster care, community behavioral health programs while driving innovation and system-wide transformation. Yvette, welcome. Thank you. Glad to be here. Thank you for having me. Oh, yeah. Fantastic to be able to meet you. Really fascinated to know what landed you where you are, kind of your why for being in this field.

Yvette Jackson 0:50

Yeah, great question. I get that a lot. And one of the things that for me I always say is like I've always had like kind of this belief for the underdog. I I've always been inspired by people who seemed like they had just everything going against them and were able to overcome that and have meaningful lives and oftentimes make an impact maybe in their communities or their families. And so I think that for me at a very young age, I was just very inspired by stories about how one or two supportive relationships really just change the trajectory of someone's life. And I was like, I want to do something like that with my life. And that's really what started. And I was like a teenager when I don't know, I always say it was like my affinity for watching Oprah, and she would always have these guests on their foster parent or their teacher or that person. And I just was always very inspired by those stories. So that's what led me down this path.

Ken Huey 1:37

Fantastic. I'm a big Oprah fan too. It's kind of an amazing day and age where if you're the sum of your best four friends, as some have said, you can have your best friend listening to podcasts and such and interacting then with big people like Oprah and Jeff Bezos, and you can have your core group be really big. Who do you listen to? What do you like to sharpen the saw with?

Yvette Jackson 2:02

Oh my gosh. I think in terms of just my own, I actually like a lot of things that are around Eastern Buddhism kind of thing. I really am into that in terms of just like the spiritual aspect of connecting with people, that humility and bringing that to the table and also working on yourself. I'm really big on anything that has to do with self-help, self-reflection, but I'm a social worker, so that's kind of a thing. But I think in terms of leadership, I'm very, I very much follow Simon Sinek, Liz Weisman, some of those thought leaders, Stephen Covey. I love the book, The Speed of Trust. I think that is just so powerful and the concept is so simple and yet it's so powerful. I tend to gravitate to those types of ideas. Something that seems very small and people go, Oh, yeah, I get trust. But when someone kind of breaks that down in a way and you can look at that from a leadership perspective or how we can influence our communities, I just find those things to be very fascinating because while they seem so simple, we actually don't do a good job of doing those things. And so I really gravitate to those types of ideas and thought leaders.

Ken Huey 3:06

So fantastic. The way that you were speaking on the kind of the spiritual side, I was it brought Eckhart Tole to mind, especially since he did some stuff with Oprah here a few years ago. Is he something that you ever interacted with?

Yvette Jackson 3:18

I've not interacted with, but I have interacted with his books for sure. I mean, the power of now is one of my favorites, something I try to read every year. I think it's one of the most powerful kind of books out there and so meaningful and yet one of those things that's simple but hard. And so I think having a reminder, but yes, that is definitely one of the kind of thought leaders in that space that I connect with. Ticknot Han is another one that I'm really into. So yeah, I have my things that keep me grounded in that way and that bring me kind of back to what works for me and how I can put some of that stuff back out into the world and the universe, if you will.

Ken Huey 3:52

Well, fantastic. A little bit of off script conversation there. Thank you. Because I know that I enjoy. Well, so over the past 25 years, what changes have you seen in how we approach mental health care for children and families, especially?

Yvette Jackson 4:07

Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great question. I think over the last 25 years, there's been such an emphasis on understanding like the impacts of trauma coming away from this theory of what did you do to a focus on what may have happened to you, right? And that change and that trauma-informed care and the way that we approach that as a society, I wouldn't say society, but I think the way that we approach that, particularly as a community in behavioral health and mental health, and it is broadening out to society. We are seeing that pushing out where the stigma is coming down, people are really starting to understand. And you hear the lay person talking about trauma and the impact of trauma on their lives or a loved one or things like that. So I think that we're talking about it more. I think we're focusing on trauma and understanding of trauma in a way that we didn't when I kind of first started in this field. I think the other thing is this integration of physical and behavioral health, right? This whole person care, which I'm very drawn to for a number of reasons. A lot of times, mental health, we for years up until fairly recently, we took the head off the body where it's the driver of the body. It's the driver of that integration between those two things is so interconnected. But I don't want to go see a psychiatrist or a mental health professional, or your PCP maybe ignored those symptoms that may have been attributed to the way that your mental health was doing, and that could be affecting your physical health. Now we're seeing this integration of it in out there in the space. And I think that's been a real powerful shift that is going to, I think, continue to help us become healthier as a society, not kind of ignoring the mental health aspects or the behavioral health aspects of whole person healthcare.

Ken Huey 5:45

Yeah. It's well said that we finally started to understand why why are you doing what you do is better understood by what happened to you. What can people do other than clinicians to help with the trauma and the issues that create that damage that manifests itself in sometimes behaviors we just don't get?

Yvette Jackson 6:07

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a great question. I think that for the average person out there, not being afraid to talk about mental stress, mental health. I think people think mental illness, right? Mental illness and mental health are two different things. And mental health, we all have to strive for mental health in the same way we all have to strive for physical health. I went to the gym this morning. That is my effort of physical health, right? What are we doing to in the same way for our mental health? And so we tend to not want to talk about it. I think people get mental illness and mental health kind of mixed up, and there's a stigma around mental illness still that's out there that we need to overcome. But I think that it's healthy. I know that it's healthy to talk about the fact that I'm not doing well. I don't feel well, I feel anxious, I feel depressed, I feel sad. We don't have to go so far as depressed. I feel sad. And sharing that with your friends, sharing that with your family and getting comfortable talking about those things with each other at the very kind of surface level is something that we can all do for each other. And sometimes just sharing that. I'm not doing well, I'm not feeling well, things happening around me are causing me a lot of stress, that can immediately alleviate some of that, right? And I think it just facilitates a broader conversation with the people around you. So we're not just talking about surface level stuff with each other, but we're really trying to understand. And I think that when people do that, then we'll get to the place where people will share there are traumas that I'm dealing with or something that happened to me. So I know that there's still a lot of stigma out there, but certainly if you have that psychological safety with that one person that I started this conversation with that you can talk about, that's a way forward. And hopefully as a community, we can encourage those in our circle to talk about that. When we say how are you, do we mean it?

Ken Huey 8:00

In the trauma space, you've led large behavioral healthcare organizations, not the least of which is DevRel, of course. What do you do with that kind of a system, that kind of an organization to really support healing?

Yvette Jackson 8:14

Yeah, I mean, that's what we're here for. That's what organizations like DevRel are here for, is really to allow people a space where they can talk about those traumas, where we can overcome those traumas, where may maybe we can learn about the traumas and the impact on our lives and some of our behaviors. That's what we do for a living, right? A lot of times people come to us and maybe they don't know why they have some of these behaviors. I don't know why I'm angry all the time. I don't know why I want to be aggressive. I don't know why these things are. We are going to come from a place where there's probably a trauma behind that. And we need to help you understand that trauma, overcome that trauma, and why that trauma may be driving some of those things. I think a lot of people don't know why some of the behaviors that are not acceptable in society are occurring to them or some of the feelings that they're having, right? Some of the emotions that they're going through that they're like, I don't know why I have these emotions. I don't know why I feel this way. For us, what we're trying to do is kind of deep dive into there, create that safe container, and allow people a space to learn about themselves and understand why their reaction to some of the things that may have happened in their past or maybe something that's recently happened is causing them some dysfunction potentially in their life that they want to overcome.

Ken Huey 9:33

Yeah. I have a high ACES score. We're talking about trauma, of course, the adverse childhood experience study. And I've long felt that it's not my fault what happened to me, but it is now my responsibility. And the folks that come to Devereaux and that come to the Hope Group don't necessarily know, they don't know, like you say, why they're doing what they're doing. And getting the idea that it's not your fault, but yeah, you're left to deal with it now. How do you balance that?

Yvette Jackson 10:05

Right, right. Even though we may have had something that has been done to us and that's caused that trauma, it's not that you're inherently acting out, if we want to use that term, or behaving in a way that is not acceptable. We are accountable still. It's not okay to lash out at somebody or physically aggress against someone and go, oh, it's because of my trauma. That's not okay. We still have societal norms. We still have to work within those norms. And that's kind of what we do is I want to acknowledge that these things have happened to you, but I also have to help you function as a human being that's gonna help you overcome those in a way that you understand that those unacceptable behaviors or some of the things that you're going through that are causing you dysfunction, we have to overcome them. And we have a responsibility or you have responsibility, we all do as individuals, to work towards that and understand that we have to hold ourselves accountable. I think that goes back to where we were talking about the power of now. I mean, the power of now is a great book for that, where yeah, there's a lot of things that have happened, but the past is the past. The future hasn't gotten here. What I have is today. And that doesn't negate all the things that I come with as a human. But I certainly have to focus on what I can do, how I can operate within kind of societal norms to an extent, as long as they make sense, and that I'm a functioning member of society. And that's really what we're hoping for people and trying to help them to do, not to be an Oprah or whatnot, but really just to be able to say if you have a good functioning life, you can hold down a job, you can have relationships, you're a part of a community, you have friends, you feel like a good human, and that's gonna make you feel better.

Ken Huey 11:46

Yeah. You've been deeply involved in therapeutic foster care, and it stands kind of at the headwaters of a lot of what's gone wrong for kids and gets badmouthed frequently. It's a little frustrating to me. Hey, the system's broken. And I think, well, how do you answer that comparing to institutions and the damage that was done there? How would you respond to somebody that says foster care really just isn't where it is?

Yvette Jackson 12:13

Right. I am a foster care person. It's where my passion lies. I have engaged with the foster care system for 30 years. I have been a foster parent myself. I have recruited foster parents, trained foster parents, supported foster parents, have been in their home numerous times, placed children in foster care, so on and so forth. So I think having that experience has shaped me that I think foster care is amazing. I think foster parents are amazing. I think that they're probably one of the most undervalued groups in society. I did another podcast where one of the things that I shared is I feel like we as a society should see foster parents in the same way we see teachers and first responders and those kind of folks where we really hold them in high esteem. But we don't tend to do that yet. They're doing such amazing work for our communities and for the individuals. And opening your house and your home and your family and to a child in need and a family, it's not just that child, it's all the family that comes with them, is so honorable. And it's something that those folks are people I look up to immensely. I think, in terms of the way we support those people, is what's broken. I think that we can do a better job as a behavior health or a child welfare system or system of care out there in our society to support those folks and to give them all the resources and things that they need to be successful. And oftentimes that doesn't happen. And I think that is a gap that is there. But oftentimes, foster parents are bridging that gap from trauma to into the health, right? And trying to keep those families intact. And it's certainly better for a child to be raised and receive care in a family than in a congregate setting. We all, I think, can agree to that. But there are times where some of those congregate settings are needed for a temporary stay. And then we got to get those kids back into a family. Oftentimes foster families are the place for them to go. So high esteem for foster families and the work of the foster care system. I just think the system at large needs some retooling for sure.

Ken Huey 14:15

Yeah. Yvette, you're preaching to the choir. Thank you. I love this. So it's frustrating to me that the noisiest stories are always the things where it's gone bad. I get it. That's the clickbait. That's the interesting thing. When 55 out of 56 foster care families have great successes and do a tremendous work, the one that goes bad gets the attention. But there's still then this stigma that gets left behind because that's the news that gets reported. My son and daughter-in-law fostered, and it led to their adoption of just this amazing granddaughter that I have now. And I want to see the stigma that is so unfair debunked and deconstructed around foster care. Do you have any ideas relative to that?

Yvette Jackson 15:01

I think you nailed it. I mean, it really is that one story that takes up the news cycle or gets people's attention. And that I think goes for a lot of segments in society. That's what we want to hear, right? And I appreciate the opportunity to go out there and speak about the positive, because there are absolutely more positive and just heartwarming, amazing stories every day that I can't even, I mean, just in our organization alone, we could probably write a massive book, right? If we took every foster parent and said, tell us your most amazing story and a fostering, maybe that's an idea. We could probably do that. We have to change, to your point, the narrative around that. But for me, I think the most amazing thing that I've gotten from the work that I do is hearing those stories and being there firsthand to see that. And I think that's what we need to do. We need to have people like you and some other folks that have reached out that want to tell these positive stories, want to bring foster parents to the table. And when you hear from foster parents, like your family members that you discussed, and they share their stories, you can't help but think these are some amazing people doing amazing work quietly. They're not doing it to get a bunch of accolades. They're truly doing it to help these kids and their families. I mean, I think we think it's just about the children. They're trying to help the family and the extended family. This is not just the child that is being helped. And so tremendous stories that I hear from the families that just bring a tear to my eye or just lift me up. And we need to get those out there more often so that everyone else can hear what those stories are and the impact that these families are having on our society and our community. We don't get it, we don't get it out there enough.

Ken Huey 16:50

Tell us one story that gives you hope in today's foster care world.

Yvette Jackson 16:56

Well, there are a few to pick from, but I think the stories that really get me and really get me to just have that kind of positive feeling and lift me up are these stories of the families where the children go to them, whether it be for a very short period of time or whether that's for a longer stay, and they grow up and they maybe age out of the system, and they come back to these families year after year. And these families tell these stories of I was, I just had a family tell a story of they were at the car wash and washing their car, and a young man yells out to the foster parent, even that's saved an MC, but you know, and they said, Oh, do you remember me? Yeah, I remember you, and sits there in the car wash and it's like I was in, yeah, of course I remember you, and how are you doing and all the things? And oh, I'm I'm getting married, and I want, you know what? I'm so glad I I want you to be in my wedding. I'm so glad you're here. I want you to be, you were so impactful in my life. Or I wanted to come back and tell you I got a college degree, or I'm just calling you because I don't have anywhere to go to need some help, and you're my family. And we have story after story where these families do their service for a year, two years. Sometimes the kids move on and then they come back. And I think one story that I always always stuck with me over the years was a foster family that I was supporting years and decades ago, honestly. And at Christmas time, all of the Christmas cards that they would get from all the people and all the families that they were connected to of all the youth that were in their care. We're talking this family, 60, 70 kids at that time, probably more because they stayed with us for a long time. But going into a house and seeing all these Christmas cards and things from kids that were in their home and are now adults, it just gives you chills. The impact that these families have on individuals.

Ken Huey 18:52

Yvette, you know, we've kind of gone in a different direction a little bit and spent more time with foster care, but I'm so grateful you you've stood in a position where you're able to see some of the best successes and be a part of it, even personally. And I do want to say thank you very much for the work that you do at Devereaux and with foster care. And thank you for spending time talking to us about it.

Yvette Jackson 19:12

Yeah, thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. And always happy to talk about foster care.

Ken Huey 19:18

Thanks for joining us on The Voice of Hope. If you were inspired, share the light. And remember, hope's not just a feeling, it's a force. We'll see you next time.